Cloud Plural

Anouk: Welcome to Fusion talk with Anouk and Steve. Hello.

Steve: Hello there.

Anouk: It's hot.

Steve: Sweaty.

Anouk: It was hot last time we were here, Marin. And I was also saying exactly the same.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: But you know, you have the fan facing backwards, so it's not going to blow on us.

Steve: Why haven't you turned it then?

Anouk: Oh, I. My fault.

Steve: It's your fan.

Anouk: You, set it up.

Steve: Yes. Oh, it's going to be one of those days.

Anouk: Yeah. Where you're always wrong but never want to admit it. How's that? Can you feel it now?

Steve: A little. Yes, I did. I wasn't sure how to set it up.

Anouk: It was too much of an engineering challenge for you, wasn't it? Yeah, Yeah.

Steve: I have a simple fan.

Anouk: A simple fan.

Steve: Just turning halfway. Halfway.

Anouk: I have one of those as well.

Steve: Yes. Way easier, but not.

Anouk: It's a bit noisier, unfortunately. Yes, that's okay. All part of the fun.

Steve: it is.

Anouk: So we want to talk about cloud.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: But from a governance business perspective. Really not too technical.

Steve: Yes. We want to keep it simple so everybody try. Can understand it and everybody knows a little bit more about it by the end of this podcast.

Anouk: Yeah. Okay, that's cool. And I guess, you're going to ask me questions because you only deal with one cloud.

Steve: I do.

Anouk: I don't.

Steve: I know. So let's start about the cloud we both deal with. That will be the easiest start, I'm guessing.

Anouk: That is true. That is true. Relatively new as well.

Steve: It is.

Anouk: Then again, they're all relatively new.

Steve: Relatively. Yes.

Anouk: Well, they were all released within a few months of each other. I have the information somewhere on a ChatGPT.

Steve: I can ask ChatGPT now.

Anouk: I already have. I've already got it. It was quite interesting, because I envisaged using it in cloud built, which we'll talk about a little bit later, as the opening keynote. So I did a whole bunch of research about what people from the three different clouds, the three main clouds. There are many, many, many clouds.

Steve: Of course the three most. Well, are the three most. cloud.

Anouk: Yeah. For the big three. Google and Microsoft and aws. But HPE have got a quite a large private cloud. Oracle have got a database cloud.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: And I'm sure there's 50 others somewhere out there. and I suppose it's difficult to define what a cloud is, which is why it's difficult to define how many there are.

Steve: Yeah. Not only that, it's also difficult to find for which use case you're probably going to use which cloud.

Anouk: Yeah. We can get onto that a little bit later. Go on then, ask me some questions.

Steve: So tell about cloud we both work with. Go with that one first.

Anouk: Okay, well, obviously that is Microsoft. We're both MVPs, so that is the one that we deal with. and you deal with it in a different way from me. Of course. I tend to use the services. But you programme and dev in it in some way or another. I do using various terms like Azure functions.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: Sounds like a medical condition.

Steve: And applications in Azure like translation services and all of that, which is quite fun dealing with if you understand what you are doing.

Anouk: So let's try and put it into perspective. So I heard a story some years ago about why Microsoft built a cloud. and it was all around, I love you and Melissa. Oh, the look on your face shows your age.

Steve: Explain, because I'm not following now.

Anouk: You're not following at all.

Steve: No.

Anouk: So do you know what I love you and Melissa are?

Steve: Ah, no.

Anouk: Wow. These young pups in the world, they've got no idea what their history is. I don't know what year it was. maybe I can work it out. I was working for Aspentech, so be early 2000 she says, Googling it. And what did it say? She's learning to read as well. Let me tell you what they are. They were the two world's largest viruses that went around the world quicker than anything else has ever done before. Before really anybody started to. Now, you put in the word virus at the end of it. So the I love you one was started by a young Filipino guy that wanted to collect email addresses so he could go and sell them. But it got so virile that he launched it about 10pm or something at night from the Philippines. And it basically arrived, in somebody's inbox and said I love you. So of course everybody goes, oh, well, what's that? And then you click it open. And then what it then basically did was popped a macro that took your 10 most popular email addresses and forwarded the virus and the email content to them. And we later found out if you had any documents open at the time, it put a copy of those documents onto the virus. So it had a 10 to 1 infection rate. and so I woke up one sunny morning in Europe, which was about 4am, of course when he released it from the Philippines, only to find that everybody in my organisation was opening emails up and sending documents out to clients. We didn't know that at the time, but yes, it was the most virus and so there was two of the same form. the guy got arrested by the US and shipped to the US and now works for the CIA or something I suppose. But, but yes and so when, when that happened several things happened. First of all Microsoft didn't get affected by it. So even though everybody's Microsoft accounts did, they were not okay. So the story I heard, and I honestly don't know whether it's fully true is that one of the big banks in England, I know which bank but I'm not going to go there, was talking to Microsoft and they, they'd been hit badly by I mean this was, this was an incredibly bad virus. First of all it went like wildfire around every machine. We were at the point where we were using internal speaker systems saying to people whatever you do please do not open any email that says I love you. And literally people go what this one? It's amazing.

Steve: But that's what people do. If you tell them something to do it, don't do it, they will do it.

Anouk: and then we had antivirus software but that was use and it took about two hours to get the signature in. But by then every one of your accounts was infected. Then you were constantly running it to try and kill it. And then I had to phone my CIO up and wake her up out the shower, get her out the shower I go look I'm going to hand a slight problem over to you but we've been hit by this virus all week, all day and you're going to get it now because almost certainly your machines are going to need to be disinfected. Anyway. This chairman of the bank was talking to Microsoft. Microsoft said no, we actually coped quite well. It never bothered any of our users. so none of our data centres were affected. So we said okay, how do I get my systems in your data centre? I will pay you good money to do that. And Microsoft basically realised that I guess they realised there was a business opportunity here and they started taking on customers services.

Steve: And what year was, did you see?

Anouk: I thought it was a, about 98, 99.

Steve: Very close.

Anouk: 2000 I was going to say 2000 but I didn't want to tip that number. It was about that time I know it was fairly early on cuz I was working for the dot com and.

Steve: That four 4th of May and.

Anouk: 5Th May I love you and Melissa. Yeah, yeah Melissa was just. Somebody else took the code and, and replicated it and they made just enough changes so that the Same antivirus signature, couldn't pick it up because in those days the antivirus signature was fixed a bit like an IP address. You did it. You didn't. So anyway, my understanding is that that's what started off the whole concept of hosting these services for somebody else as a service. But it was 2006 or 2007 when Microsoft started to play around with their, Office as a service. God, you're going to test me all day, aren't you?

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: So you're not searching for M365 Cloud, are you? What are you searching for?

Steve: Office as a server, Office as a service, as, release.

Anouk: It was called Business applications or something. Oh, I can't remember now my old memory is failing me.

Steve: And you get all of the new things from 2025 and 2024?

Anouk: No. So what you, what are you searching for? Microsoft's first cloud offering.

Steve: That's the next one.

Anouk: Well, what do you search?

Steve: Office Editor service, first release.

Anouk: That was a waste of time. What have you got now?

Steve: Microsoft Azure was first announced October 28, 2008.

Anouk: 2008, yeah, yeah, that's Azure.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: But actually the Office Services was before, I think. But it doesn't matter. it's not far off for a man that hasn't got a memory for dates and doesn't do timelines. So, so yes, and of course it's developed tremendously, but it was basically Exchange as a service to start off with and then SharePoint got added to it over those periods of time. But they were not really in Azure. Azure actually came later. You couldn't take your own private service until I want to say 2012.

Steve: But, something like that.

Anouk: Yeah. but anyway, it's a cloud service. The thing about the Microsoft cloud service is it's focused on end user applications mostly. Okay. Now obviously we, we have a. AI and all that kind of stuff and you also have the ability to run applications. But Most, you know, SQL servers, you can take services, the SharePoint stuff. so there, that's their kind of focus. It's to be enterprise applications.

Steve: Yep.

Anouk: that's their focus. And then when they launched that's what they said they were going to do.

Steve: And I guess that's also the main difference with Google. or.

Anouk: Yeah, we'll get to those in a minute because they all have different reasons. so we can cover those. So, so yes. What do we want to say about our cloud service? I mean I, I host some applications in the cloud. like we have enterprise password applications that store companies passwords that's hosted in the cloud not as a SaaS but sitting on one of the servers so that it's not in the SaaS.

Steve: Yeah, I think a lot of companies have those kind of things and m do these kind of things but also building other applications their self that they are hosting through Azure functions or Azure.

Anouk: Applications and most of them are internal enterprise kind of apps. They do obviously have external facing web services and that kind of stuff and API gateways and all that. But most of the Microsoft stuff their focus is on corporate applications and that's where most of their market is. Of course millions of users log in and use different services every day, every hour.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: So then a few other guys came on on the bench. So then we end up with. And of course his name has just gone right out my head. Mr. Amazon.

Steve: Jeff Bezos.

Anouk: Mr. Bezos. And so he announced the AWS service. and of course that was Amazon basically selling books and breaking down the barriers of the book industry around the world and selling them cheap. with his doors as desks. So the Amazon offices to start off with, you never gave everybody a real desk. They went to the local DIY store, bought two trestles and a door, put them on top of each other and that was their desk in the office. So he was everything cheap but of course he was building these data centres for his E commerce platform and started then looking at other kinds of services. So AWS was born mainly as storage and to run applications. That was their focus. and of course by then people had heard what Microsoft were doing and the web was growing and applications was being created. so that's where their niche was. and of course most people have some kind of AWS presence. Most people, most companies. So that automatically gives you two clouds.

Steve: True.

Anouk: So you end up with Microsoft and AWS generally, if you're not a software house or an application house, you may be using AWS services but you may not be hosting or building applications for it.

Steve: Never done it.

Anouk: Yeah. And so that's that's AWS s as focus. And then you've got Google and Google Cloud. again they, when they announced it and I can't remember who it was that actually announced it, whether it was the two Google boys or not. again I did look it up but they really focused on their huge database experience because obviously they were recording the Internet as far as their search engines and all that kind of stuff. So managing huge data sets was where, where they were coming from. And that still is a specialty of theirs.

Steve: Yes, we visited Google a few months ago.

Anouk: We did, yes.

Steve: And we saw that container that was a replica of one of their data centres they did in the early times. So I can well, imagine that that was a focus for those characters.

Anouk: The Google autobiography is worth a read. Really is worth a read. Have you seen the film?

Steve: Oh, stupid question.

Anouk: Yes, it is a stupid question. We should put that on the watch list. So there, there is a. No, actually that's Facebook. It's not Google, it's Facebook.

Steve: The node. Yeah, Facebook has a video as a movie, but.

Anouk: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, there's an autobiography around about the two Google guys, how they got started and they used to take PCs and then they would modify them.

Anouk: And then stick them in a rack and they were very unique and we saw replicas of those in a cargo truck in the middle of the campus in San Francisco.

Steve: We did.

Anouk: So that was pretty cool actually. but yes, they basically took on the job. Let's go see if we can record the Internet. And that's what they did. and then they built their service from it. That is worth ah, a look. But no, in terms of cloud, obviously they're doing search, which is fine. but their main cloud service was around data and today it really is still data. Their data set, data centre as a service, their database as a service, has got a lot of magic associated with it. and of course they're very, very cheap at the moment on hosting VMs and virtual data centres. So each of the three clouds are delivering something different which is why it's not a straight choice. Which cloud are we going to use today? It really is what are we going to do?

Steve: Indeed. And that's why we are doing something to help companies with it.

Anouk: Yeah, I think it's a reality of the situation is that multi cloud is going to be here. Funny enough, I talked to one of my developers or one of the developers, not my developers, one of the, from the development team M in Linnaeus where I work and he said he was kind of I don't really believe in multi cloud. why do you want to stretch all of your expertise and all that but you tend not to get experts, experts that are focused on every cloud, you tend to get experts that are focused on one. And that is because, the clouds are delivering a certain purpose. So developers all know aws. All right. And then there's a bunch of AWS bolt on services for managing that AWS environment because it can get very expensive very quickly. and then you end up with Google people that can build applications, and everything else. And you also have the Google suite, let's not forget that a lot of people, I think, PwC, they're huge Google users, they don't use any Microsoft stuff, so they tend to be in the Google cloud.

Steve: You have a few of them, so.

Anouk: Yeah. And so, yes, you need different sets, but if you're managing it in an organisation or if you're working in an IT department, your organisation is almost certainly going to need multiple clouds. So we came up with a concept some. A year ago.

Steve: Yes, we did. we came with a concept about creating an event about those multiple clouds to give people insights in how many organisations are using it, what struggles do they have and how can they not fall into the same trap, but learn from each other. We both speak a lot at events and it's always Microsoft focused. You never have that multiple cloud focus.

Anouk: No, you don't. So cloud Built was created. it's been a journey. and it will happen in November in Antwerp.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: 20Th November gives me a really big bump in the pit of my stomach.

Steve: It's not far from your place.

Anouk: No, that's true. But there's a lot of work to do. Three months to go.

Steve: Three months ago. still to go. Yes. And we have a lot of work to do. But we are on the right track, I'm guessing, because our programme is getting filled.

Anouk: Yes. So we have three stages or three streams.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: and combining of technical stuff, AI stuff, business stuff. and, some sponsors that will be showing their wares and what they do.

Steve: True. So, I do look forward to it. I really need to say I do look forward to learn myself from it as well.

Anouk: Yep. Two of our organisations we work with are, sponsoring the event or part of the sponsor team. So founding sponsors, Cloudar, from, Kronos.

Steve: Yes.

Anouk: they are AWS house only. and, Ben, who is the smartest guy in the room at any place, is the smartest guy in the room. he will be running one of the workshops. and so that's the AWS. And from a Microsoft perspective, we got Sven and Angels 365. and they're doing a workshop on voice and teams and collaboration.

Steve: Yep.

Anouk: Microsoft space.

Steve: On the Microsoft space.

Anouk: Yep. And we are busy filling some of the Google spaces.

Steve: So, yes, we do. And then otherwise, next to this, we have some great sessions already in there.

Anouk: As well, yeah, if you want to look, you can go to cloudbuilt eu, and check out the website and that is there.

Steve: And don't forget to follow us on social media where you have the latest updates.

Anouk: Yes. and we have all the usual things, just search for cloud built in, Twitter and LinkedIn and Facebook and we'll soon start, as we finish off the summer, with a whole bunch of, stuff moving forward.

Steve: Yes, we do.

Anouk: So. Yes. So that's it. But I think it's an interesting question about clouds at the moment, really about where people are going. Because there are multiple clouds, and they all have their own reason for existing and being. and people need to know. And this is an opportunity for people to find somebody to talk to that is not in their normal wheelhouse that will be able to talk about different things like how are accounts set up in Microsoft and in Google and in aws and what does an account mean? In aws, an account is completely different to an account in Microsoft. In Microsoft it's an identity. In aws, it's about the services that you've got.

Steve: Okay.

Anouk: So, it is very different about the way it all works and hangs together.

Steve: See, I'm still learning now.

Anouk: Yep. I don't know whether anybody can be an expert in multiple clouds. I think they're just so deep.

Steve: I don't think you need to be an expert in multiple clouds. But, if you work in an organisation that is having more than one cloud, especially if you are in the IT department or anything else, you need to understand the difference between them and when you are going to go for where do you go for what? And that's a gap that a lot of people still have. They don't know what is being used for doing what.

Anouk: No, I agree entirely. So, yeah, so that's how we try and pull this together. It is the first, as far as we can work out. This actually is focused on those multiple clouds.

Steve: We found one other in Belgium, in Europe actually. But they only do security.

Anouk: Oh, yes, that's right. Security is actually security focused, not really cloud focused.

Steve: Yes. So, that's why we try to be different because we really want to go on that level of, Yeah, security and compliance, of course, but also strategy and governance and we want to go way behind security.

Anouk: Yeah, we absolutely do. So, so, yes, there we go. Cloud built multiple clouds. It is the way of the future, whether you like it or not, for a bit. For a large organisation, there's no doubt about it. Small organisations, they're just going to jump into Microsoft cloud because Microsoft have got that market sewn up. but as you start to grow, as you start to take more SARs, then they tend to be built in one cloud or another. Well, multiple clouds, actually.

Steve: Yeah. Also, and I think if you are operating in more than one country, you just can't stay stuck to one cloud. You need to go into the multiple clouds.

Anouk: I think your geo cloud strategy has to be supported for a multinational company. but again, it's really about what services you want.

Steve: True.

Anouk: If you want to find out more cloud built in November, check out, we'll give you a link in the podcast so you can work out and register it or you've got something else going through your head.

Steve: Yes. There are still some speaker slots open.

Anouk: Yes. So if you are an AWS and a Google, we really have got some slots available for you.

Steve: We do.

Anouk: So check out the website cloudbook, eu.

Steve: And if you don't want to speak but you want just to visit us, come and see us, in November.

Anouk: Yeah, perfect. All right, guys. Well, a little bit of a short podcast this time, but hopefully, we've prompted some thinking about those multiple clouds. and the fact that really, you know, as an organisation you want to get best value from all of your cloud dollars and that may not be in one cloud.

Steve: And that's why we, I think we found a very good, session on that one. We have a speaker coming over from Africa, I think.

Anouk: South Africa.

Steve: South Africa. Your cloud strategy is a waste of money. Rethink before you scale. So he's going to get you into that multiple clouds. He's going to touch all different clouds.

Anouk: Yeah.

Steve: So I think that's going to be very interesting.

Anouk: Cool. Well, there be others. Keep your eyes open for it and, hopefully we'll see you in November.

Steve: Yes. So we will say goodbye to you all.

Anouk: Bye for now.

Steve: Bye for now.

Anouk: Sam M.